now, it is true, warren buffet, for example, could afford to pay more in taxes. >> we're talking about joe the plumber. >> in order to give additional tax cuts to joe the plumber before he was at the point where he could make $250,000. exxon-mobil, they can afford to pay a little more so ordinary families who are hurting out there, that they are trying to figure out how they are going to afford food, how they save for their kids' college education, they need a break. look, nobody likes taxes. i prefer that none of us had to pay taxes, including myself, but ultimately, we have to pay for the core investments that make the economy strong -- >> nobody likes taxes, let's not raise anybody taxes, okay. >> i don't mind paying more. >> businesses in america today are paying second highest tax rates of anywhere in the world. our tax rates for business in america is 35%. ireland, it's 11%. where are companies to go where they can create jobs and where they can do best in business? we need to cut the business tax rate in america. we need to encourage creating jobs, not spread the wealth around.